Made in Public Ep.1: Dan & Elise Rowntree on Launching Mood Haus Before the Ducks Are in a Row

Episode one of Made in Public is recorded in a camper van with Dan and Elise Rowntree, founders of Mood Haus, a sauna, cold plunge, and community wellness concept launched publicly before they had a site or facilities. They explain why they posted that their “ducks are firmly not in a row,” how a Cameron Herold “vivid vision” document helped make the idea real, and how building in public overcame Elise’s fear of public failure after a corporate career. Since posting, they’ve received validation, site offers, investor and collaboration interest, and momentum that led to exploring a much larger 14,000 sq ft opportunity. They share how quitting alcohol and seeking mood alteration through contrast therapy shaped Mood Haus “sauna 2.0” vision focused on social wellness, experiences, and community.

00:00 Ducks Not In Row
00:18 Meet Mood Haus Founders
01:01 Why Post Before Ready
03:03 Elise Fear Of Failure
05:15 Vivid Vision Goes Live
06:12 Building In Public Mindset
10:55 Cornwall Chapter Closes
14:20 Market Timing And Competition
16:54 What A Vivid Vision Is
21:20 Post Results And New Sites
22:32 Big Cornwall Site Lead
23:43 Sponsor Vertical Drop
24:16 Unexpected Investor Interest
25:08 Stars Aligning Fast
25:54 Local Partners And Saunas
26:57 Why Build In Public
27:42 Community Over Perfection
29:22 Bigger Vision Bigger Site
30:56 What Mood Haus Is
31:38 Quitting Alcohol Origin Story
35:12 Sauna 2.0 Mood Focus
36:38 AI Sauna Prescription App
38:09 Market Proof And Benchmarks
39:50 Next Steps And Site Challenges
40:48 Content Creation And Branding
42:55 Full Circle And Momentum
44:06 Closing Thanks And Founders

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

We talked about it a lot and it's almost like there's not much more that we could have done. So um, yeah, putting it out into the world and and seeing seeing what comes to us was was was our thought process there.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

People, this one is special. Welcome to episode one of Made in Public, captured in the back of my camper van. Dan and Elise Roundtree are the founders of Mood House, a sauna, cold plunge, and community wellness business, and they launched it without a sight, no location, no nothing. Just a belief, a vivid vision, and a plan that can change as it goes. These two are proper operators. Track record, experience, but they're starting from scratch, building in public just like you. This episode will give you the push you've been waiting for or remind you why you started. Let's get into it. Cool. In the back of the van, Dan and Elise Roundtree, the founders of Mood House, which is a sauna coal plunge and community business. We'll get into the details of what that business is later on, but there's a post that you guys made which really I think embodies the podcast that I'm creating here in Made in Public. And you've launched Mood House before really everything was in a row. You put in the post. Ducks are firmly not in a row. At that point, no site, uh no saunas in that sauna business. Um and yeah, I've just wanted to really understand what possessed you to make that post and why.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Okay, well I'll I'll I'll kick us off. Um it's been like a a vision, a plan, a dream of ours for well over a year now. And um I think we've had at least one site fall through. And you know, it's it's a belief of ours, both of ours, really, that you know, I think, you know, things in in this world become become a thing even before they are a thing. So, you know, there's this, you know, uh I guess a a theory, um, a yeah, a belief that putting things out into the world and then seeing them come to fruition is a is an effective form of creation, and it seems to have been the case, you know. So that's one kind of like, I guess, fluffy way of looking at it. And the other way is that fluffy hell, it was just we were talking about it so bloody much, it was just about right, okay, what happens if we just put it out there and just get yeah, shit and get off the potty, really, and just you know, right, we're doing this, we don't know where, we don't know when, and we don't know how. Well, we have a fair chunk of that, you know, like we've thought about a lot of it. Yeah, that that kind of analogy. But you know, it's just like we've we talked about it a lot, and it's almost like there's not much more that we could have done. So um, yeah, putting it out into the world and and seeing seeing what comes to us was was was our thought process there.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

I think for you, Elise, obviously Dan's serial founder has had many businesses, and we were talking on our sort of briefing call about it probably gonna feel quite different for both of you guys because Dan can be like, it's another business that I'm really into and I'm doing it. But for you, this is like a you're coming from a corporate world where you've had big jobs, and this is very different in this entrepreneurial space. And for you to hit go, Dan, it's probably a lot easier to be like, I'm gonna put this out into the world and boom, something's gonna happen. Whereas for you, you definitely felt quite nervous about um posting that. Where's where's that coming from, do you think?

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Well, if you'd have asked me that same question, I'd have answered completely differently. So I don't know whether that's better that Dan went first because he can believe something to see it, and I am like, I have to see it to believe it. So I think my past in a very structured hierarchical corporate world didn't allow for that kind of creative thinking. So I definitely resisted hit and go on the post, probably way more than Dan did.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Well, I'm not sure if you even knew I was gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Well well, I did.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Oh, there was a bit of a build-up, wasn't there? There was a bit of a build-up.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

We went, we we did go at the same time, and we'd just been to answer the question, I think we'd been working a system, or I'd been working a system where my identity was so closely linked to this change of creating a business that I was paralysed with fear way more than I would have been in a boardroom with a CEO of a multi-million pound company.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

So and do you think what do you know now that you've posted and this has happened? And and we'll get into sort of what has happened because a lot's happened since you made that post. That's kind of where I wanted to get you guys and get you guys now because this whole sort of made in public, build in public feel um it's about the the the messy middle that you you guys are very much in and and what happens downstream with that. But what do you how do you feel about it since you've posted since you hit go?

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Amazing. I mean it it it it started with a vivid vision that I wrote probably nine months, maybe twelve months ago.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

We wrote it when in Portugal.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

In October, yeah. So the the the idea had been like with us for a lot longer than that, but actually it started by writing a a vivid vision document, which then after pushing the post was it it became real. It was like shit, this is actually real. Like I just got through from the company's house that I am the director of Mood House, and I'm like, I can't believe so. Actually, it made it real without it actually being real.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Is that kind of, uh but also it's I mean you were saying that this you you've got this desire for it to be, you've got to see it to believe it.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Yeah, um I wanted to wait for a site before we before we posted because to me that was the tangible we're coming and this is where we're gonna be. So in my mind, in a very sales structured role for 20 odd years, I was like, you can't go and find your target market in unless you know your geographical area of influence, right? So how does that work? We don't even know where we're gonna be. Um and we were following I was I'd been following Harrison Hyde, who's creating Long Lane and Louis Blake, Louie Blake. Um, and I was like, Yeah, actually this is a thing, like building in public is a thing, and up until that that point it didn't exist for me, and like you say, my my background is very different to Dan's, so he's got this entrepreneurial kind of throw it out there. I mean, I've done a few vision boards in my time, don't get me wrong. I I believe that you know you can sort of manifest things to happen. Um but like dancing.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

I think a lot of people would be in your boat though, but these the same thing, they've got this business that they've been talking about with friends, thinking about, back of a cigarette packet, planning, um, and really wanting to get started with it, but life getting in the way, but also things not quite happening. I mean, what would you say to that kind of that kind of person at the minute? I know it because for you it's been it's been yeah anxiety producing to get it done.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

Yeah, I mean I lost sleep over it, definitely. I don't think I've told you that, did I? You could tell. Yeah. As you do generally when you live in the same household as someone, you you you know when they're like could be one of many things, but actually I did, yeah, I lost sleep over it. I was like, oh god. The fear of public failure after the fear of um or sorry, after the public success of a very structured career and institution was massive for me. So you know that that fear was was huge. Um and I had to do a bit of work around that because I'd got my husband here just going, oh just do it, just get in front of the camera, just create it. And I'm like, ah, what happens if I fail? Like I'm gonna look like an idiot. Everybody who previously followed me in my corporate career still follows me. So they're all waiting for the next move, and it's like, oh that's gonna now I'm publicly gonna like it.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Well I think that's a really valid and that's a really valid fear though, isn't it? It's it's quite scary to I've certainly had that feeling when I've spoken about multiple things that have never come to fruition. And you know, it's it's embarrassing, I suppose, to a degree, isn't it, when someone's like, How did that thing go? And I'm like, I can't even remember. I can't remember the business that you're talking about that I was trying to do.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Yeah, but all also, I mean, you you know that my husband's ADHD, so so he Dan just just a smidge, but you know, the the don't know what you're talking about. This this let's throw as much at a wall and see what sticks kind of approach is very much Dan's style, not mine at all. I am meticulously a little bit more strategic. Maybe I'm not meticulously planned.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Maybe more strategic all of a sudden goes into a couple's counselling thing. How does that make you feel, Dan?

SPEAKER_02 9:37

Counseling from the van. Um, but yeah, I'm meticulously planned and probably driven from a place of you know fear of public failure. So I think, but that's probably the beauty of us. We do meet somewhere in the middle. Absolutely, and we did with this, didn't we?

SPEAKER_00 9:55

And you know what? It wasn't as kind of like um off the cuff as you might think. You know, you you kind of highlight that post as as a kind of pivotal moment, which it was, because that's what really kind of really said what we were doing. But I think for literally since that vivid vision until that point, we'd been we've been teasing it. So that vivid vision, which is like a nine-page document that that gives you uh, you know, uh um, you know, a narrative of what the business is gonna is gonna look like and be like in three years from now. So what do you do on a Monday morning? What does you know the world think about your business? And it's a really kind of emotive document. And I started sending that to people um from kind of like no no uh October onwards, so kind of warming up the audience, warming up people, letting people know that this is what what we were doing. Um you know, and then from from that point onwards, I think probably a couple of weeks before that that kind of final post, it was like, yeah, the Cornish, Cornish dreams over, which we can talk about. We you know, we were looking at the sites, look, you know, we're we're looking at the street.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

I think it's worth if I jump in there, then you guys, you know, we're we're in Cornwall, um, and you guys had decided that um maybe this business didn't belong down here, and maybe you guys wanted to go and yeah, close close this Cornish chapter, and that was all part of this whole um this the last few months for you guys. Um but then you said okay, well actually no, we're gonna we're gonna put out to the world that we're looking for a site in multiple locations, wasn't it? Somewhere between Reading uh and London.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yeah, Reading, London, Stanford. And actually, this Cornwall wasn't an option at that point. And I think it's probably worth saying that you know, um, over a year ago we did have a site in Cornwall. We were very kind of excited about that as a proposition, and everything was seeming to slot into place. We had a house, daughter at school, happy, friends, you know, beautiful place to live. You know, yeah, okay, this is this is a vibe, we could stay here for a bit, and then slowly but surely things fell away. We lost the site, we lost the house that we were going for, and um then my daughter you know declared that she wanted to go to boarding school, so you know, it's like okay, all right, maybe maybe Cornwall's not for us, and then you know the conversation were like wasp wasps in bottles, weren't we? Yeah, we didn't knew it's a funny thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

I love that I love that. But like every anchor that a family should have, yeah, should society would say you should have is you know where you're gonna live, where your kids are gonna be educated, and you know how close you are to family and how you're gonna make money. Yeah, and none of that, none of those anchors were in our life at that point. So maybe there was a little bit of kind of well, what's the worst that can happen here?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Well, in obviously knowing you guys and uh having conversations throughout that period, and I sympathized with that because it was asking the question like how's it going and managed to sort a plan out with this or not. It's and it was constantly like another another challenge and another kind of option constantly. And yeah, it's really hard to not get sort of destabilized, I guess, in that period.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

We were really destabilized. Yeah, yeah. We were really unstable.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

I actually like I think you guys are like testament to the strength of your relationship over that period because it was you know, it was a tough environment when you're all going, right? Actually, this is all everything's up in the air.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Yeah, just getting getting comfortable being being uncertain was was what? Um and getting a bit unfragile with it, you know, and you know that that kind of flies in the face of all the things society tells you you you should have. Um but from a personal perspective, I think once I started started kind of stopped stopped kind of fighting the fact that that that flow was pushing us up country um and surrendering to the fact that, well, actually, if we're gonna make a move for the business, um not primarily, but one of the key reasons, then we then potentially Cornwall wasn't wasn't the place for it because you know you look at the market down here, we are in pretty much the sawner capital of the UK, um, and you know, there's not a shortage of options down here. And um, you know, further up country, there there is an opportunity for us to kind of like expose this way of um socializing, living, thinking to people that can afford it, you know, higher supposable income. Um, and there's probably um less, well, there was less competition in certain those certain places that we'd highlighted, sort of between London and Reading and up by Stanford. So um, yeah, but I mean look, I mean, we're not the first people to have this idea, right? You know, there's there were 65 saunas, public saunas in 2021, there are now 650, I think, in 2024. Like 10x jump in four four four years or or or less. Um so and we're I think we're we're kind of um forecasted to be the the most uh the the most saunny users uh or the most the nation of sauna most sauna users in the in Europe by overtaking Finland by 2033 or something for our cheer sheer size. So I mean we we had this kind of like slight um I don't know time pressure. We were like we we kept it kept coming, even though that's not real, it was self-created. It was a bit like shit, there's another sauna in Sheffield, shit, there's another one in Oxford, shit, there's another one, and there's another there's a horse box down here, shit, there's another one in Lantigue. You know, that that's you know, what we we need to we need to get onto this. And I think um that's that's where that kind of like brief happened and we started to create you know opportunities for ourselves, you know, got an agent on the books and and um paid that started to pay them on a retainer and started to to want to see these opportunities come to fruition.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

So you know it's that was the point of commitment, wasn't it? It's like okay, we're are we actually committing to this or are we just gonna float around like wasps in a bottle and and maybe let it kind of pass the spine. You would always say, Dad, like Dan was brilliant at this, he'd be like, if there was an opportunity that presented itself, he'd be like, Are we gonna look at that opportunity and think that was a really good idea, we didn't do that. And and I'm that always puts me in that space of oh no, I don't wanna I don't want to miss that opportunity. And actually that that was what happened. That vivid vision moment, I cried in Portugal reading that out to you because that was such an emotional like moment of this is the values-led business that I want to run. And it feels so like so close to my heart that reading the vision literally, I was just in tears. I was like, Well, I've I found it, yeah, now I've found it, and I always had my identity linked to work. So I had a slightly different like we're obviously we're two different human beings, even though we share the same house, but you know, and lots of other things, but you know, my experience is completely different to Dan's.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Do you think then for somebody else who is sat at home wherever they may be, dreaming of this business that they want to launch, they want to create, uh, and they're thinking about doing it, uh, following in other founder's footsteps at the moment and doing that publicly, building it, getting the audience, getting the community, getting it going. Do you think that the vivid vision should be the thing that precedes that?

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Oh, it's a great tool. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

I mean, look, I mean, you could do what a vision vivid vision is.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Well, should I just I'll do the coachy bit? Yeah, and then you can actually understand you can explain what um what it actually is. Um because I mean, it's it was created by a guy called Cameron Herald, um, who is who is a coach and who has worked with hundreds of different different businesses to I guess to get the best out of them. Um and essentially it's a visualization manifestation tool. It's not like a five-year plan. Um, it doesn't have any numbers attached to it. Um it is it is uh you know a you know a very it's like a story of what the business is going to be like in in in five years from now. And I mean look, I think Cameron Herald wrote that book before AI, well he definitely did, because you know, you could we could create prompts now um of what you would ask it, and we you could interview it, record it on a on a on a on an AI um note taker, plug it into an LLM, get some 3D images drawn up, cartoons, whatever, and you can create a document um that that reads like a small, you know, really engaging manifestation document for the future. But it's an amazing thing if you want to get like investors involved, if you want to get like a pitch, didn't we?

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Yeah, as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

I mean, it doesn't replace a pitch deck because it doesn't have numbers in it. But if you want it's and you know, it varies it's a s it's a soft measure. So actually now I now I think about it, it's probably less investors, more you know, kind of partners, um, people that want to work for you, suppliers, you know, people that kind of like are thinking about you know, um, maybe working with you rather than, you know, yeah, it didn't, it didn't replace a page deck.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

And for for me, it made it real and it made it like okay, it's out there now, I've said it. And the feedback was insane because I think for having this fear of what people were gonna think, actually, it was like there wasn't a single person that wasn't like, oh my god, this is awesome. You need to do this. So actually, there was like all of this momentum like gathered. People were like, oh, amazing, I've seen this site, da da da and all of that. And and all of a sudden you you were like, Yeah, that that I guess if you were looking for any validation, which I think I was, you probably not so much.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Well, yeah, but I mean we we all are humans, we want to know we're going in the right direction, but you know, there's no doubt that that this helps because you're like, let me just just read this. If you've got you know, give give me 50, you know, 10-15 minutes, read this, and then let's have a chat, then you'll get it.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

But I think also for what you were talking about earlier as well, Elise, if you're connected like emotionally to it and you're telling somebody about it, rather than reading them your business plan where you're like, Well, in year one, we're gonna do X in sales. But if you're like, it's gonna feel like this, it's gonna be these kinds of people, these kinds of experiences, yeah, then you can imagine that other person being like, That sounds amazing, because you're emotionally kind of telling the story.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Because it's and it's sorry, it's it's written from your perspective as well. So it's it's it's interesting because you could do a vision for your for your life, for but this is a vision for your business. So when you walk in, what do you smell? On a Monday morning, what are you doing? That kind of thing. It's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

It was very simply described by Cameron Howard as the picture on the box of the big store you're doing. Yes. So you can't like you can try and put it all together, but if you don't know what it looks like, and so it was creating like like artistically creating the picture on the box.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Okay. Cool. So you've done your Vibivision, you've hit go three weeks ago, you've made the post. Uh a lot of things have happened that we've spoken about, and it's very current. So I know that we can't probably go into the real granular detail of who, what, where, and when could it be.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

We should put it out there. Yeah. We can keep it in the in the in the can. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Yeah, yeah, in the van. So yeah, what's happened downstream in that post? What's what's happened?

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Yeah, look, I mean, it was start off with it. It's just every you know, everyone is into this, right? It's a bit zeitgeisty at the moment. Everyone is like, okay, yeah, sauna cold plunge, everyone's got a view on it. And if they haven't done it, they're curious about it. And if they have done it, there's very few people that are like, oh that's shit. And most people are like, wow, this is great. And you know, you know, and I think if I look at it right now, it's like the sauna 1.0 is out there at the moment. It's like there's a place to go and do it, you know. And we're thinking this is sauna 2.0, this is like, you know, how can you spend an evening there, an afternoon there? How can you create more of a lifestyle for it? So, you know, I think that as a proposition and is is has been really exciting. And from my background, in F and B retail, you know, um FMCG, you know, booze, there's there's a lot I've got a fair few amount of contacts in that space. So there's a lot of people reaching out validating it. But more more than that, you know, you know, people have you know got in touch and offered offered sites.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

You know, I've had given that you were looking for sites in vain for a year.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Well well we've got about 18 minutes I reckon. I think now we're nowhere with it. Yeah we know we now have they're not all all secured but it feels like there's a pipeline building and then one opportunity that came to us um from a from a business down here um Origin Coffee Tom Soby who's a he's a who's a founder of that business um I've been you know friends with um via my daughter for for a for I guess a couple of years and we'd met not really sure why you know quite a few times and we've talked about doing things hasn't quite worked but you know he got in contact you know through WhatsApp and I was like oh shame you're moving because you know um I've got a site that would be perfect. That's on the back of the post because I guess that's how he knew how he yeah so he knew that you know I think a couple of posts before the one I said oh it's Mood House Community Sauna when I said look you know Cornish Dreams over and we're looking at these in these places. So he got in contact and I was like well again with this notion of like look by doing this you're surrendering to to what comes at you and rather than saying no I was like yeah okay let's go and have a look at it and it's it's bang on right in the middle of Cornwall you know location wise I think there's 25000 people within 10 miles. Yeah um it would be um amazing to be like part of you know Origin Coffee's um office 70 people in one site that the the site we're still working out with an architect at the moment aren't we but I think it's probably about 14,000 usable square foot which is more than just more than a sort of more than what we need.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

I don't know much about footprints but that sounds like a big sauna that doesn't exist yet a lot of wood. Yeah this episode is sponsored by Vertical Drop our end-to-end podcast agency based out of our studio in Clark and well London founders a podcast is the single best tool to grow your personal brand and business right now not just through content but through access. We recruit your guests those people who won't take your call they'll sit down with you for a well positioned show. We get you in the room with the people you actually want to do business with strategy production editing long form social content all handled.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

DM me on LinkedIn for a free pilot no strings there was also a couple of interested investors and collaborations with other businesses that we I didn't dream that we would get that kind of like response from it. It's like oh okay not only are there people saying okay have you considered here or here or I'm looking at this or have you know I I'll talk to you I'll talk to somebody on behalf of you for an introduction to but then there was also um a couple of people that actually reached out and were interested in collaborating with their businesses for shipping container conversions and for investment as well. So like literally it couldn't if you'd have said to me you're gonna post and this is going to happen I'd have said no thanks.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah so am I right in thinking there's also maybe a thread there around someone who could potentially be the the sort of project construction manager that's oh yeah yeah that happened as well that's that's from from a network and yeah I think it's a stars aligned moment yeah and I always look at things you know in life in terms of flow you know and and this has been really easy put the post out put call to Tom he can meet me on the time that I want to talk on the site he's still interested I call him he's like can we have exclusivity? Yes of course you can can we have an architect I think I met an architect a couple of years ago in in the first co-working space found his details messaged him can you meet me on the site tomorrow? Yes I can it's like okay all of a sudden we've got you know oh this is site bigger than what we wanted but you know our our local gym is looking for um an expansion and they've been looking for a site for well over a year took the founder up there potential there I've got a couple of people that I know that are connected with that have paddle businesses potential to do that you know then I met with someone that um you know wants to do a you know a Soho town um farmhouse style business up here and we've met with her and so there's all these kind of links and then then just out of the blue someone's like oh my my cousin um my cousin makes saunas like okay cool so you had a call last week with someone who makes saunas and then he was like yeah I've been thinking about your brand and you know I've been I've been thinking about doing a um well it's actually showed me the show me the is more than thinking about it's doing this kind of lifestyle sauna brand which is all about kind of I think it's for the chillers and the dippers and I mean it's a wicked concept.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

It all of a sudden became like um an opportunity to support other people's small independent businesses and that just re-rooted it even more in the values. It's like okay and then you know this person knows that person and then the architect knows the um project manager who's just got engaged to a friend that I met and it it just yeah I mean Corn's a small place right so this is the bit that feels to me like made it public this whole podcast is about this because for me this is the most interesting part of the story.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Because you could you could have not spoken about any of this and two years' time from now you make a post saying ah sauna business is open. Yeah and it's like great I'm really delighted for you.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

I mean what why now you get to go back to this small but growing audience of people that have shown interest in your business and be like since we made this post a whole load of things have happened and that's the story that I'm certainly listening to like leaning in being like what happens next you know like what's gonna happen you know I think sorry one one point I just wanted because I feel like itching to make I know what you're gonna say I know it doesn't you know we if you just don't know what's what's out there um you know so I think if you if you're too narrow with you know with with your proposition you know and someone said to me the day it's like just with the advent of social media you know like Gen Z and younger they're almost like sceptical about brands that aren't built in public if one of the finished product all of a sudden you're out there like not sure about that. You know it's like well where where did you come from? What did you do? How did you get there?

SPEAKER_02 28:25

And also well that's that's human curiosity but it's also like the the the ever thrown at you polished perfection of um high definition happiness that social media is like okay it's all got to just be da look we're opening the doors and we used to do this and now we've done this and everyone's like okay well how how did that happen? Yeah and actually it's like that's the bit that's like really gritty and really interesting and really hard as well. So I don't think people want to see the the the finished artist.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

And I think people want that you know the tribe or the community to be part of something that's new and founding members of something and part of the part of the the part of the genesis story of stuff. I think more and more people want that from the brands for whatever you can see that you know all the brands that are doing really well they feel you think of like someone like Huell and Hooligans there's like there's always this like yeah we we I was one of their first ever customers you know there's that sort of energy thing that this sort of story builds.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

And this business is rooted in social wellness so actually it's like what why why wouldn't that be the way we would go with with our story to socially involve people in a community that that's what the business is about through and through isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Yeah and if you'd have said said to us you know probably even uh you know three weeks ago just before that post like well do you think you would ever do um something bigger you know would you think you would do a kind of like more of a kind of a wellness hub you know would that would that be an option for you?

SPEAKER_02 29:54

I I think I'd have probably said no um but then you know as a result of you know putting out there you know there's another there's another there's another kind of opportunity another level of kind of like possibility that you didn't even know existed yeah you're looking for 2,000 square foot yeah you're not looking for 14000 square foot so actually 1400 yeah yeah so so you're like well and and actually I've been guilty of that I've been guilty of closing off opportunities because they were too big and actually we would never have really considered it had we not posted had we not had those conversations uh around actually a much bigger opportunity than we were actually looking for.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

But giving ourselves credit we did we weren't ever stopping at one site you know so that if you look at read our vision it was like okay in three years time we've we're moving on to our fourth site etc so you know it was always about well okay so what does that elevated you know vision of what you want to do how does that change what you do now? Because the picture was bigger from the the jigsaw picture was always bigger than one site. So that's why having a having an agent on our books looking for sites was was a was something that um because that might be seen as a bit of a luxury at our stage but actually because we were looking at three sites in three years or three sites in five years that's actually you know a prerequisite of of the need to have a pipeline of sites.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

I bet I bet everybody now is wondering what Moodhouse is you know let's let's get some detail about about this fabulous business that you've you've pushed out into the world.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Yeah so if I start with what it is and then like just go back a little bit for how we got here it it's it's basically uh business rated in social wellness um what's social wellness at least that's a really good question Dan so largely based around altering your mood with natural highs and um now I've got to go back and tell the story so Daniel and I gave up drinking four nearly five years ago yeah January 2022 and just to give you some context on that Dan was a pub landlord and a massive drinker. Yeah we both part of my identity part of your identity yeah and worked in the alcohol industry for most of your life um sorry to talk for you first man of art last man standing yeah badger on it we were both married to alcoholics yeah it does um which is how a little bit of how we sort of connected in terms of our previous world and the trauma that like living with addiction comes with um and we just realised that alcohol wasn't serving us we had um a crash in our world around 2000 and October 2022 yeah to 2022 um and somebody close to us um that was 41 actually died through alcohol abuse and I didn't even know that was possible um so basically we decided it wasn't it it it wasn't gonna serve us for the rest of our lives I think didn't we and at that point we actually didn't make that decision we were like let's do dry January like most people do let's just take this step at a time white knuckle our way through January see if we can like not drink um and the rest is history four and a half maybe five years later we still don't drink but what we missed massively and what I missed massively was alteration in my mood. Everything else I could get it's like there's a good non-alk alternative to a beer to a prosecco I mean there weren't then but there are now and we found them we went around the world pretty much looking for them didn't we and found all those alternatives but the it was like what what do I do to change my mood I can still I can go raving I can go dancing I can go to festivals I can go to weddings barmitts for funerals whatever and not drink but actually how do I purposely alter my mood and actually the best thing we found to do that was contrast therapy so sauna and cold plunge and we were living in Los Angeles at the time and well other mood altering substances are legal and available. Yeah um and we were very much into the the the new bar concept of kind of socialising in really cool places. So the thing when you don't drink for anyone that doesn't drink is you don't you need more stimulation than the person that's drinking because the person that's drinking is kind of you know going down a route and I retrained as an alcohol free coach and actually you need in a social space something else to do. So we went to some really cool pop-up bars in um Los Angeles where there was an antiques shop for example where it was all non-out drinks amazing non-alcoholic um beverages that were accompanied by amazing people but actually there was lots of other things to talk about because people were shopping for antiques or just like nosing around a shop for example so we um found that it was one of the best things we wanted to do we wanted to bring the concepts together and we couldn't find it anywhere. So we were like this is the space we wish existed. It's like how do we go somewhere meet cool people create intergenerational friendships build community get layers of kind of really cool people together from all different walks of life and change their mood.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

I guess move move away from this you mentioned earlier Dan about uh you go to a sauna most sauna cold plungers you kind of go for an hour and you leave and just move really to the complete other end of the spectrum of that and be like well what would it look like if you go there for an evening for an extended session.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

And I think that's that's the the sauna 2.0 that we're we're talking about and I think a lot of saunas talk about you know features you know we've got the two two cold plunge and then this presents it the temperature and it does this for your body but we're all about mood we're all about the the benefits the after effects you know what are we sh shifting you from and to you know and for me having had two decades in in the booze industry and you know leaning heavily into that for a good good good period of my life um and but also still loving the the the retail and hospitality business you know and you know and and also the craft of making you know making drinks you know and you know I as a result of you know that whole world then quite naturally fell into the non-alk space and the adaptogens and nootropics and you know I guess vitamins and minerals that that people are now taking to to you know alter their mood whether that be functional mushrooms or magnesium or CBD or eventually hopefully C BD psychedelics you know and these are things you kind of envisage uh you you were saying prescribing all based yeah so we we've with the with the be with the beauty of AI I've I've created a vibe coded yes vibe coded AI loss as our kids would say yeah or a prescription sauna prescription app so you put in and it will be launched at some point well before the uh but you know yeah yeah have you another set yeah cool um so you put put in you know the mood that you're you're currently feeling and where you want to get to and then we prescribe you a drink to have before a kind of route through the sauna whether that be um you know through the experience whether that be breath work or some yoga some stretching and some infrared maybe some some sauna some cold plunge at different temperatures but a bit of a hot tub do we do social sauna do you do you know kind of um the quiet sauna and then there's a drink to have afterwards in terms of kind of totally shifting your state so yeah we we we want to we want to take it take it up a notch you know and lean in and and get ready for this this shift in in kind of socialising you know the future of socialising where there's no booze and there's really cool environments to go and experience life and there's other things to alter your mood and like I say eventually hopefully there's you know elements of psychedelics and THC in there.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Yeah that's that's sounds gonna be it's gonna be part of the future maybe in the next 10 years but we're only ready for that and in the meantime let's let's make a really really effing cool place to go and have sauna and coal plunge yeah and now that it's now that it's in existence and people are talking about it do you feel that there's the demand for this solution you say sauna 2.0 people are loving it I mean you know we're in Cornwall and there are a few there's a lot and there's some really there's some really great ones isn't there a great ones some really great ones and um with with loyal sort of followings you think that now you've been speaking to people about your vision and being emotive about it that they're like actually that sounds pretty fucking cool.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Yeah I'm gonna just one I think that what there is some space in is is this kind of we don't want to go bougie with too bougie with it but there's probably a just one layer or two up you know we went to Ireland a couple of weeks ago and there's there's a business there called Hotbox that have got eight sites and they've had eight sites in five years and um they're raising money at the moment and they're quite kind of vocal about how how successful they've been and just under a million euros of of profit um in last last year from eight sites.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

So it's you know and and we we visited two of their their propositions in very different environments. One of them um is like was like a bit of a sauna village in a light industrial um site next to a brewery totally different to what we went to the night before which was right in the city of Dublin you know underneath kind of like office buildings very much like a gym but you know it's you know there are there are kind of there are levels you know and um you know I think the bar's been set by by people like Other ship and hotbox and other people there's a great business called Goose up in Sheffield but yeah so so we want to we want to join the party yeah we want to up it up the game.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

So what happens next it's out there traction momentum potential sites I mean I am now my days are now full of conversations with architects um conversations with um project managers um start to talk to suppliers about sauna um I've registered the business we've got our bank account um we are doing it and now it's on-site visits um I'm even gonna buy myself one of those laser measurers because I'm always wanting one of those if it's what is it 14000 square feet you you need one yeah yeah it's and I've just been waiting for my main measures aren't that long we've got to get around some drainage issues that we just highlighted drainage challenges. So there's all these challenges like the and and by the way like uh I'm absolutely loving it because I'm like okay I've got to learn something new this is this is brilliant that's where like part of my purpose yeah we'll get to them if you're doing this whole thing part of my purpose and the other thing that I'm doing is obviously building in public. Yeah so um I am now from the person that was like oh god I've got social media is anyone gonna see this how embarrassing to actually physically being on camera and building this in public so my does that make me content creator I don't know we're so embarrassed.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

I mean we did some con we did some content creation when we were in Ireland didn't we?

SPEAKER_01 41:33

We did we did but there was this it looks great. The stuff that you're putting out you know you've you've you've made it digital and pretty you've got your branding in it you've yeah uh got some yeah there's a brand behind it now and it starts to look like something real and a story that's already getting traction across both of your both of your but I I'm not on I don't really go on Insta much but I'm seeing all your LinkedIn stuff. And it just looks cool and it's a thing that people are already getting behind.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

I'm gonna take full credit for that thank you. Yeah what for the brand that's what you've been doing the last couple of weeks Tom yeah because yeah that was that's my baby with Tom. Yeah. Because from the vivid vision to like 10 of Ruby's friends following me on Instagram there was a massive gap.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

So this isn't it's a never can build a business on this Ruby's friends will be all be there she's 15 16 yeah so she'll they'll be in they'll be in the by the way they get it absolutely get it they're like oh that's a brilliant idea a non-alcohol like non-alcoholic bar.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Yeah like what are you serving? So they're a generation of of kids that unless they haven't got used to alcohol but they they probably are drinking.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Buzz balls buzz balls are kids balls. Yeah you seen the biggie yeah I have seen the biggie the liter of yeah yeah that's what Ella yeah that's what she she pines for.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

They don't have to grow up in a in a world like we had to grow up where it was peer pressure and there were no alternatives you know the the alternatives now for for for kids are are massive and Ruby will certainly grow up with that in our household because she can't pinch any of our bees because we don't have any poor kid so to bring to bring us back full circle to pushing the button and surrendering to the result as you would say Dan um are you happy you did it? Yeah and I and I've got a I've got about your your greater kind of massive the backside it is really painful. So it was massive resistance from me and Dan just kept like nudging me and nudging me and it was the right thing to do definitely. Like now I think well where we we'd probably be where would we be if three weeks ago we hadn't put that place out no further on.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

I just I'm just excited for what's next because you know literally it's like what's happening next week. Yeah because you know that there are the more that the more that you you know the more that you put out There, the more the more you're getting back, and you know, I'm still I'm literally still going through the meetings that I that have come into the diary since since that post and since the subsequent posts. And you know, last week had a meeting with the you know the head of strategic projects or something from from Punch Pubs who have thousands of pubs all over the country. You know, could this be a new concept for them? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Well, I'm super invested on like two or three levels because I was very unhappy about the Cornish experiment ending. As I from a selfish perspective, I really wanted you guys to stay and hope it I hope that does happen. But also I just think the concept is awesome and for that to be built somewhere close to here. Um I really want to see it come to fruition and and maybe a podcast studio in on site. Maybe. Yeah, member number one.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

Thanks for being a founding member. I will be a founding member, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

Are we having founding members? Yeah, yeah. Yes, we are. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Sweet. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Thank you. Yeah, very kind.